The Jesse Jackson exclusive: June 12 annulment was wrong

Poverty in the North growing
Renowned American civil rights activist, Rev. Jesse Jackson, has described the annulment of the June 12, 1993, election results as a wrong decision, which should never have been taken.
Speaking in an exclusive interview with Sunday Sun in Abuja, Jackson said that annulment was indeed one of Nigeria’s low moments which set the democratic march back.
Also speaking on other raging issues, Jackson linked insecurity in parts of the country to widespread poverty, especially in the North, which he said could not be curtailed by military action alone.
“I think that the poverty in the North must be addressed with an anti-poverty plan, not just a military plan. Acts of violence and terrorism obviously must stop. It could lead to instability and it discourages investment. It keeps poor people poor.”
Jackson also spoke on his life of activism,  the Obama presidency among other issues.
Below, the interview with Rev. Jackson, as conducted by ERIC OSAGIE, Executive Director, with PAULINUS AIDOGHIE, Staff Correspondent and BAYO OBISESAN, Senior Photo-Journalist.
When we want to talk about you, we say civil rights activist, civil rights leader, black rights activist. For readers of this paper, who is Rev Jesse Jackson?
I was born in the State of South Carolina which is in the deep South. It was a slave trading state and I was born in the midst of real legal apartheid, legal segregation. My father, like many other veterans of World War II, they came to Germany to fight against the Nazis.
They came home and had to sit behind as Nazi prisoners of war on American military bases. Our life was limited. We couldn’t use other facilities. We couldn’t use hotels, motels, public parks, libraries, swimming pools, because we found ourselves in an apartheid region. I later learnt of course, that South Africa learnt much of its tactics from South Carolina because we call it segregation at home, they call it apartheid. But it means the same thing. So, I grew up in that struggle. In college, we were restrained again in trying to use hotels, motels, public parks, libraries and restaurants.
In time, I met Dr King and began to broaden our view on what the challenges were. People like to speak about Dr King and the “I have a dream” speech.
But they often miss the context of that speech in the sense that this is 1963, a year before the 1964 civil unrest, two years before 1965 and three years before the Copenhagen March in Chicago in 1966 and five years before he was assassinated. The day he gave that speech, African-Americans and people of colour from Texas across to Florida, up to Maryland, couldn’t use a single public toilet. The day he gave that speech, we had to come by car or by truck or by bus to bring our food and put in the car so we could serve at restaurants.
We had to take our birth outside doors, behind the can or tree. We were living in abject humiliation, in barbarism. So, the speech was given in the context of trying to overcome apartheid. The next year before the public bill was passed, we were successful in changing the legislation. 18-year old who were serving in the military could not vote until that time. Students on campus couldn’t vote on campus until 1974. You couldn’t vote absentee, you couldn’t  vote till 1975. We began to campaign to get proportional representation in 1988. We tried to democratize democracy. It’s been a long, arduous and tedious process. So, we began at one level in the deep South and coming into the other ages of that system by rebelling and facing jail and then learning more about this rebel.
And in the mean time of an African consciousness, there was the peace Corps, which went round parts of Africa. They came back with such great stories about Nigeria. He said those people (Nigeria) one day, possibly given an opportunity in education, they’ll have the power to change the world. One day, he convened 200 young men in an auditorium and talked about Nigerians’ experience here. And then he said name five African countries. I think only one guy got as high as four. That’s how isolated we were from the bigger issue of Diaspora and our origins and stuffs like that. The world had changed as at that time, but we were on the ground floor overcoming the stereotypes of the past. But the white guy, his wife and child had everything. We’ve overcome so much of that. And so, I’m a product of an ongoing, never-ending struggle to globalize human rights and justice.
I was blessed to come to Liberia in 1969 and began to explore the impact between the other plantations of Liberia and those in the US, the relationship between the Nigerian place, US military base in World War I1.
In 1971, I came to Nigeria for the African-American dialogue. On that trip, Whitney Young perished and I eulogized him in Lagos in 1971. We were hosting that conference and focusing on ending apartheid, ending colonialism at that time. This was 1971. But then in time, we found ourselves, Joe Garba, the then Foreign Affairs Minister, Bolaji Akinyemi and I spoke for the UN Council against apartheid in Paris. So, a big force in the frontline states campaign for liberation was Nigeria. A big force in South Africa’s liberation was Nigeria. The south has an abiding appreciation for this country and even now. This is the engine that drives the west of Africa. So, stability in Nigeria means so much to the region of Africa and the world.
Now, the oil is a big deal here and because it’s such a big deal, it’s important that we harness its energy effectively. The spillage is a loss of energy. So, this is a great resource that must be harnessed while it exists. While the oil is still flowing, one must think of the agricultural diversification sector. We have our future in technological development, science, technology, engineering and maths. That’s what the school (Edwin Clark’s school) is going to be about. Coming from the two biggest, most profitable, and Delta is from Houston and Lagos, from Atlantic to Lagos. The trade route keeps expanding between the two countries and science has dwarfed distance and time with speed.
Are you happy about the development in Nigeria? You’ve seen it all,  from the military up to this period. Could we have been greater?
I think about Nigeria as being free for 53 years. When America was 53, it was selling people.
Slavery was its number one trade. Nigeria has shaped the country. 250 languages, north and south multi-cultural. It is a vast country and so, it’s taken some time to get its bearing and there were some military hiccups along the way, but America’s first president was a General and they’ve had crisis, genocide against native Americans, slavery of African- Americans, women could not vote. America has had to grow from genocide against native Americans, from slavery of African people to being part of the real struggle. Rights of women and human rights, environment rights. We’ve had to grow. So, I see Nigeria’s state of development as progressing. It doesn’t mean if it has to be as long as America did or as long as Britain did. You know by example what does or does not work. If oil is a factor, then you must harness and maximize. Oil spillage and tillage and flares can be better used to invest in the economy. Nigeria has the capacity to be the food basket of this region in the export of food. There are about 36,000 Nigerian-American doctors in the US, almost as many as African-American doctors. Some of the brightest doctors and engineers and professors are Nigerians who have this vast and very resourceful people which makes education at the end of the day. The strongest weapon is a developed man. A strong man breaks strong things. An undeveloped man becomes the tool for oppression. The developed man becomes a tool for liberation.
So, I see your politics as more or less stable. You have had successive elections and that is important. But the energy is still a big factor. I think that the poverty in the North must be addressed with an anti-poverty plan, not just a military plan. Acts of violence and terrorism obviously must stop. It could lead to instability and it discourages investment. It keeps poor people poor.
On the other hand, given the poverty in the region, you must address poverty with anti-poverty. There is a certain concentration of poverty in that region and it becomes a feeding ground for anger and rebellion. Jesus said when I was hungry, you fed me. That is hope. I was naked and you clothed me. That’s hope. I was in prison and you set me free. That’s hope. So, we must fight despair with hope and fight poverty with anti-poverty.
2015 is by the corner and there was this prediction some time ago that Nigeria will disintegrate. You are in Nigeria. Do you see that possibility of disintegration?
That’s foolishness. Nigeria is getting stronger. Its people in universities all around the world are doing exceptionally well. Maybe around 7,000 Nigerians in the US. The country has had a successful successive democratic election and you are overcoming the North-South fears.
But the North-South fear is still there?
Yeah. But you will overcome them in time.
There is this issue right now over which part of the country the presidency should go. The tension generated perhaps originated the dooms day prediction from the United States.
We (Americans) have learnt to survive apart. Now, we have a greater lesson to learn how to live together. For example, we always had an American president of the Northern part. But as we kept evolving and as the votes began to come in, we got a president from the South. Bush came from the South and Cheney came from the West. Now, we have an African-American President who ran neck –to- neck with a white woman for President. So, some probably take time to grow out of certain unfounded fears. Clearly, the president you have now has a vision for one Nigeria and you should never again go back into the late 60s. You should never go back into secession. America went through secession when the South had to secede and that created the civil war. The union was saved and slavery technically ended. So, we went through the phase: from slavery and the civil war, to segregation, separation by a region. But now, the benefit of a strong federal government is that it can connect the north and south in ways it cannot connect itself. I mean, who has the capacity to build the national highway, the national healthcare system, the national education system, national housing? The federal government has unique powers that can be used to bring all Nigerians under one big camp where all feel secured.
So, if we can tackle the war on poverty, build infrastructure, Nigeria will be together?
Absolutely! One senses that there is a desire for Nigeria. There is no political action for secession in Nigeria. That’s true. There are those who think Nigeria lacks the capacity to develop but they were wrong. I remember many years ago during IBB’s policy shift of the capital from Lagos to Abuja. And he was convinced that the shift of the capital was smart and he was right. Now, one of the most beautiful and fastest growing cities in the world is Abuja. Abuja is just growing and it becomes an example of what can happen when resources are properly used and invested. And then, people attract people, success attracts success. There is now a significant amount of Nigerian-Americans who are coming back home. A while ago, there was brain drain. But now there is less brain drain and that’s a good sign.
Are you concerned about corruption and looting in Nigeria?
I’m concerned about corruption everywhere. The right to vote and transparency ensures security. In international law, human right is key to development.
Do you discuss with some of these Nigerian leaders on the issue of massive looting of Nigerian resources over the years?  
 We discuss a lot of things but my point is that wherever there is corruption, there is education and illiteracy. It’s most obvious that gas flaring is environmentally hazardous but it’s also energy that can be captured. Some people think of the oil spillage as just tapping buckets. But some are tapping ships. It’s not just buckets. It’s ships. Obviously, the loss on oil revenue is a factor in the country’s ability to develop. So, that must remain on the forefront of the Nigerian-African agenda. I think that there is a generation of Nigerians who have seen that and want to address it. You must remain optimistic about your own possibilities.
Nigerians are concerned about the loots and they are still trying to track it down, from the Abacha loot to the present?
I met General Gowon, I met the Ghanaian President, and of course Babangida briefly because at that time, I was coming to him to find out the whereabouts of Abiola. He actually allowed me to see Abiola. I saw Abiola and at that time. He had been disoriented by the attempt to destroy him mentally. He saw me and he hardly recognized me because he was disoriented in his mind about the terrible things that had happened to him. But the country keeps moving. Since that time, you have had the Abacha regime, successive democratic elections and you have about six former heads of state in the country whether it is Obasanjo, Babangida, Gowon and the big military leader, Abdusalami Abubakar. Nigeria is on a growth curve. In our country, there is a constant struggle to stop the greed and exploitation, a constant struggle to have checks and balances and separation of powers. We are still engaged in that struggle. Nigeria is facing sunrise and not sunset.
What kind of man was Moshood Abiola, the man you saw but who couldn’t recognize you?
 He was a bright man. He had met so many Americans and he would have been a great connection between Nigerians and the Diaspora blacks.
If you are saying it was wrong to annul the June 12 election, what role did you play during that annulment?
We were just appealing and seeing that transparency did prevail in the end. That was one of Nigeria’s low points. But the good news is that Nigeria keeps coming back and that is the sign of a champion. You fall down some times, but you get up again because the ground is no place for a champion. Nigeria as a country keeps on coming back and that is why there is no danger of disintegration.
You could have been the first black president. I watched you on Cable Network News (CNN) during Obama’s inauguration with tears in your eyes. Why did you weep?
In 55 years, I remember how exploited and how oppressed my parents were. My father, how badly he felt. He came back from World War II and had to sit behind bars. He couldn’t vote. I remember the limitation placed on my mother. I remember denials of segregation and limitations, the denials of my right to vote in 1965. I remember that I was talking with Dr King when he was killed. We were in conversation when he was killed. I was very close by him in the mountain top speech when he was killed. I thought about it and so many other martyrs.
When I ran in 1984, we were testing the ground. We went to an all-white state and I got double digits with very little budgets because some whites would vote for us if we appealed to their interests. We got two million votes first time round. Next time, we got seven million votes and it kept expanding; new people, bringing the Asians, Arab Americans and Jewish Americans in coalition and whites and blacks, we kept building a multi-racial policy. I knew the work and the risk involved in that process.
My mind went back to those who made that night possible. Most of them are either dead or too poor to be there at that spectacular event and I felt desperate. I felt for those living and dead and I wished for a moment or just a second that Dr King would have seen that night. So, it was the journey that got us there and the joy of the moment. It was a 54 years journey that changed segregation laws in 1954. It was a journey that never stopped from being beaten and killed trying to vote in 1965. Barack is the young man who ran the last lap of the 54 years race because every minute, things happened in that interim, changing laws, testing limits, growing confidence and building coalitions. He and my son are patriot children. Barrack Obama, Jesse Junior and Jonathan are all mates and his wife, Michele. I remember he said he watched me when was I was debating in Columbia. He was a student on the ground and he said this could happen. The whole idea was to plant a seed so in time it could happen and he emerged at the right combination of gifts at the right time and the right message to take the ball over the goal line and we all celebrated his victory.
It does seem Obama has faced the most resistance as a President since Abraham Lincoln, like calling the Public Health Act the Obama Care, for example?
It is not Obama bill. It is a public health Act. But he did not bow. He stood tall, protected the bill. But the forces of resistance  have never stopped. Racism, poverty and  violence are too much in the American psyche and it must change. We lose so much time and resources on poverty, racism, gender inequality. We are fighting too many expensive wars.
If you are going to say everything your life has been and what you have stood for, how would you sum it up. What would you like the world to remember about Jesse Jackson?
I had my call to public service. I had my call to justice. I had my call to peace of the world and accept the risk of being a peace maker and not just a peace keeper. Peace keepers may keep things as they are and that may be quietness. Peace makers fight for justice. So, I have my call to public service, my call to justice and my call to be a peace maker.
What are the things you could have done differently if you had the chance?
I really must look at the world through a wind shield and not through a mirror. You can’t drive safely if you are looking at the mirror. You must look at the wind shield to see where you are going. For sure, there are some things I would change, but this is now and that was then and everything has its own context, its own time.
Nigerians and Africans must build stronger trade ties, strong education ties, strong business ties, stronger cultural ties. We have so much in common. We can have a mutually-beneficial relationship with African-Americans but centered in the heart of the American political order so we can protect some Nigerians’ need and the famous fuel we have. We have the capacity to build a mutual benefit. Culturally, yes. Politically, yes. Economically, yes. We have all reasons. We must work together at another level now.
You are not getting any younger to be travelling so much on the roads…
 But no one is getting younger. I may likely think I’m getting wiser because I see more and I know more. I was in South Africa, Cape Town, when Mandela came out of jail at the time and I was the first African-American that came. Me and my son. I met with Mugabe across the years. I met with IBB, I met with Joe Garba, met with Abacha. In time, relationships matter. I wish I had more time for my family. I never had time because of my mission.
Do you have a book or memoirs on some of these memorable encounters and events?
As a matter of fact, what happened was that I was in the Gambia. A year ago, we heard that Jammeh was going to kill 40 people for treason and nine had been killed. Because I had met him before, I said please stop. He agreed to stop the killing in the Gambia and he also agreed to release four people: two American – Gambians and two Gambians. We were able to call him because we have a relationship. I’ve been blessed with bringing Americans home from prison in Syria and Cuba, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Liberia and the Gambia. We’ve been blessed with bringing Americans and others out of prison over a long period of time.
When will all these end? When will you stop? You are over 70 now. When are you going to take a break and go on vacation with your kids that you never had time for?
You know, the mission of my ministry is doing God’s will. My family are part of this struggle in so many ways. It’s really a family affair. I never had a 9 – 5 job. This is not about money. It’s a mission. If I can keep building bridges, I want to keep doing that.